“Self-denial has it’s place in a Christian’s life, but God doesn’t ask you to choose what is most painful to you. If you followed this path you would soon ruin your health, reputation, business, and friendship.
Self-denial consists of bearing patiently all those things that God allows to pass into your life. If you don’t refuse anything that comes in God’s order, you are tasting of the cross of Jesus Christ.
God gives you grace to bear the cross in your life just like He provides for your daily bread. He will never fail you! It is a good exercise for over enthusiastic people to give up their own ways of practicing self-denial, and to allow God to bring whatever He will into their lives.
If you are not willing to accept the self-denials appointed by God, then don’t trust the self-denials that you come up with. Examine what you are doing. Trust God to bring you what you need.”

The Nature of Self-Denial
from the book “The Seeking Heart”
Fenelon

I find that if I am not genuinely denying myself then my love is tainted and my humility is false. I hope you liked M. Fenelon’s wisdom on the subject.

Nathan

Nathan

Perhaps Duchess is one of those folks who actually know the Lord in their hearts without the religious fru-fru.
We get so caught up in our religious notions and jargon that sometimes we forget that God has on occasion sovereignly reached out to individuals.
If you could accurately describe the Lord, without jargon, to one of these folks they might say “Yeah, that’s the guy I know, isn’t he great!”

There are a few.

Nathan

Isn’t this meditation a slight variation on lectio divina? Maybe with a bit of journaling? It sounds good!
BTW I love Madame Guyon, I am working through her “Song of the Bride”. It’s great and quite challenging too.
I like her friend Fenelon as well. Does this mean I have an 18th century French heart?
Bien sûr!
God bless you, and thanks for sharing all of this cool stuff.

Nathan

PS I love your title graphic above, it’s really good.

Acts 15:28 Gentiles where not given the Tithe command by the Apostles or Holy Spirit.

Obviously you have studied the subject more than I. I intend to research the information you gave me more fully in the future, however simply reading your history lesson, I will respond.

I think Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it (Matt. 5.17). I love the Old Testament and I also think it should be taken hand-in-hand with the New. Think I abused that particular verse? Alright, pick another one…pick Luke 6:38 (give and it will be given to you). My concern is not with the term “tithing,” call it whatever you want. But whatever you call it, the Lord promised that He would give to those who gave. Heck, he promised He would take care of our basic needs in Matthew 6. Like I said, maybe this post was simply a shout out to God asking Him to open my eyes so I could see the blessings He is giving me.

Has the Church misquoted Scripture to fit her tithe theology? Absolutely. But that wasn’t my point. My point was that I can’t make pay my bills and I don’t know why.

1. Post-Calvary Christian giving principles in Second Corinthians are superior to tithing. (1) Giving is a “grace.” (2) Give yourself to God first. (3) Give yourself to knowing God’s will. (4) Give in response to Christ’s gift. (5) Give out of a sincere desire. (6) Do not give because of any commandment (8:8, 10; 9:7). (7) Give beyond your ability. (8) Give to produce equality. (9) Give joyfully (8:2). (10) Give because you are growing spiritually. (11) Give to continue growing spiritually. (12) Give because you are hearing the gospel preached.

2. Abraham’s tithed in Genesis 14 in obedience to pagan tradition. (1) He did not “freely” give. (2) His was NOT a holy tithe from God’s holy land by God’s holy people under God’s holy Covenant. (3) His was only from pagan spoils of war required in many nations. (4) In Num. 31, God required 1% of spoils. (5) His tithe to his priest-king was a one-time event. (6) Not from his personal property. (7) Kept nothing for himself. (8) Is not quoted to endorse tithing. (9) Most commentaries explain 14:21 as pagan Arab tradition, it is contradictory to explain the 90% of 14:21 as pagan, while insisting the 10% of 14:20 was obedience to God’s will. (10) If Abraham were an example for Christians to give 10%, he should also be an example for Christians to give the other 90% to Satan, or to the king of Sodom! (11) As priests, neither Abraham nor Jacob had a Levitical priesthood to support; they probably left food for the poor at their altars.

3. Although money was common and essential for worship for over 1500 years, biblical tithes were always only food increased by God from inside Israel (Lev. 27:30, 32; see site for all 16 texts).

4. Since only farmers and herdsmen tithed, there was no minimum standard requirement for most. Tradesmen such as carpenters (Jesus), Peter (fishermen) and Paul (tentmakers) did not qualify as tithe-payers. The poor and Gentiles did not tithe.

5. Tithing was only commanded to national Israel under the terms of the Old Covenant. Tithing was never commanded to the Church after Calvary (Ex 19:5-6; Lev 27:34; Mal 4:4; Mt 23:23 matters of the law).

6. Those who received the first whole tithe did not minister atonement (Num. 18:21-24; Neh10:37b). Priests only received 1% (a tenth of the tithe) (Num 18:25-28; Neh 10:38).

7. In exchange for receiving tithes, both Levites and priests forfeited all rights to permanent land inheritance inside Israel (Num. 18:20-26).

8. Firstfruits are not the same as tithes. Firstfruits were a very small token offering (Deu 26:1-4; Neh 10:35-37; Num 18:13-17). Tithes were the tenth and not the best; only 1% of the tithes included the best (Lev. 27:32, 33).

9. There were 4 O.T. tithes: (1) Government taxes (1 Sam 8:14-17). (2) Levitical (Num. 18:21-28; Neh. 10:37-39). (3) Festival (Deu 12:1-19; 14:22-26). (3) Poor tithe every 3rd year (Deu 14:28-29; 26:12-13).

10. Tithes were often taxes used to support Levite [politicians (1 Chron, chap 23 to 26; esp 23:2-5; 26:29-32; 27:5). Tithes never supported mission work (Ex 23:32; Heb 7:12-18).

11. OT Levitical tithes were brought first to the Levitical cities and not to the Temple (Num 18; Neh 10:37-39; 2 Chron 31:15-19). Most Levites required tithes in their Levitical cities where 98% stayed (Num 35, Josh 20, 21).

12. Malachi 3 is the most abused tithing text in the Bible. (1) Malachi is OT and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing. (2) Tithes are still only food. (3) His audience reaffirmed the OT curses (Neh.10:28-29). (4) The blessings and curses of tithing are identical to and inseparable from those of the entire Mosaic Law (Deu 28:12, 23-24; Gal 3:10/Deu 27:26). (5) “You” in Malachi refers to the dishonest priests and not the people (1:6-14; 2:1-10; 2:13 to 3:1-5). (6) The “whole” tithe never went to the Temple! (Neh 10:37b). (7) The Levitical cities must be included in a correct interpretation. (8) The 24 courses of Levites and priests must be included. (9) The “storehouse” in the Temple was only several rooms (Neh 13:5, 9). (9) “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” only makes contextual sense if it is only commanding dishonest priests to replace the tithes they had removed from it or had failed to bring to it.

13. The OT Temple and priesthood have been replaced by the priesthood of every believer. NT elders and pastors more closely resemble OT prophets who were not supported by tithes.

14. Tithing was not legalized as a church law until AD 777. If was not introduced as a local regional law until the 6th century. See any reputable encyclopedia.

15. NT giving principles are: freewill, sacrificial, generous, joyful, not by commandment or percentage and motivated by love for God and lost souls.

From the book, Should the Church Teach Tithing?
http://www.tithing-russkelly.com russell-kelly@att.net

My daughter is like me (Probably a INTJ) and doesn’t
socialize like my wife would like. It’s a struggle sometimes.

Dave
http://finepoetry.wordpress.com

Dave

Dave Barber
http://finepoetry.wordpress.com

Yes, I agree. I can’t remember the verse, but I saw a verse in revelations that talks about the ‘Young Lion’ (US) watching Gog and Magog attack Isreal and not be able to do anything because they had become weak. I think this is the start of that. We are in the end times.

But we should still pray for our president. Who knows how this could change. Maybe have a Muslim president might draw more people to a relationship with Jesus Christ. That would be cool. Just as the cartoon says, 51% or 52% – depending on the view. We say, how could we have the most radical, extremist in the Whitehouse and God is saying How can I draw this People back to Me?

Well, anyway, just an opinion.

Dave Barber
http://finepoetry.wordpress.com/

ransom33 @ http://www.ransom33.wordpress.com

I assume you are addressing azarak. I completely agree with what you’re saying.

I think you and I know from experience that once you taste what you have called “the plumb line of God’s eternal purpose”, part of His gift to you is that you hunger after Him more. As they say, “it takes God to love God.” He satisfies your soul while at the same time causing you to want more of Him.

I also know from personal experience that this kind of hunger cannot be manufactured. It is a gift — one that I would encourage azarak and every Christian to ask for, but still a gift.

You know what the first thought that came to my mind when i read this? – Why? Why, only take half the gift?

To worship God surely you need to have a theological foundation to why you do it and my question to you is that if you have read God’s word and have a good foundation to your worship; that is, aligned with the plumb line of God’s eternal purpose then how can you not thirst, not hunger, not long for more of Him?
To know Him more, to be able to discern truth and purity to dwell into His word and let His spirit do the unthinkable and cause you to love Him for He first loved you.

I’m not trying to attack you, believe me i’m not, i’ve just begun to grasp the idea of thirsting after Him and missing Him when you’re not in His presence and it’s incredible.

I urge you to make an effort because it makes Him smile and there’s nothing better than the feeling of the creator of the universe smiling on you.

i wonder if this business man had taken his own advice….if he wanted me to join his strange, lonely, floating world?

i distinctively said “hhhaa ha.”

Oceans of hugs. Mom